#732 - It's!... Not Very Effective

#732 - It's!... Not Very Effective

Oh no!! If Exodragon keeps digging his hole, he's going to dig straight down into the Author Comment!! Aaaaa!! That is, only if you're reading this on ComicFury, Tumblr, Facebook, Patreon, or Webtoons!! If you're on Discord, the Author Comment is safely above the comic! If you don't want to be hit in the face with dirt clumps, then join us on Discord where it's safe!!

And if you do enjoy getting hit in the face with dirt clumps!... Then call me. ;) xoxo
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5.31.2023, 1:03 AM
Dude not cool! You see a guy digging a hole you do NOT mess with the hole! Not even if it's technically a divet. Or a poorly planned bank job- let a guy dig a hole!
6.1.2023, 7:54 AM
Gotta dig your holes on personal time, not in combat
5.31.2023, 5:40 AM
if I had read this In discord, I’d see if I could make a small picture that looked like dirt was raining down on it just for the joke.
But I don’t think I can get the same effect on comic fury.
Oh well!
5.31.2023, 7:21 AM
Better head over to Discord then 😎✨
5.31.2023, 10:00 AM
Ah yes... a "fun" topic for RPGs, be they TTRPG, JRPG, etc.:

How long is a turn?

Pokémon turns seem like they're not too long, until you get a move like Dig. Even with superpower based digging, fully submerging underground in just a few seconds is crazy fast!

Even more so in TTRPGs like GURPS, where combat turns are only one second long...
5.31.2023, 10:55 AM
Ian the Great
I've got a GM who just says turns are as long as they need to be. Versimilitude gets in the way more often than it makes games more fun, so if a round needs to be 2 seconds or 20, that's what it is.
5.31.2023, 10:58 AM
Yeah my policy is dump rules as often as possible to keep things fun and flowing
6.2.2023, 12:49 PM
If "verisimilitude" is a dirty word to your gaming group, I don't think it'd be for me, Ian. ;) I mean, we're talking about something appearing or feeling real, not expecting your TTRPG to be a real-world simulator. So it needs to "feel real" in context. If that is how you and your group can roll with turns allowing the character as much time as they need, that's great! The thing is... if you're all that laidback and good with cooperative storytelling, do you need a TTRPG system at all?

The video game/computer game side of things obviously can't be that open ended... or it can, but it needs to be the kind of RPG where no one cars that Character A can only swing a sword once per turn, but Character B can get a healing potion from the Inventory, use it on Character C, and summon Bahamut. Plus Bahamut gets to take an action before Character B's turn is "Over".

Even in TTRPGs, this can be a problem, because those too often need to balance out different actions. Imagine if Character Y has time to draw his sword and slash an opponent, while Character X has time to string his bow, draw an arrow, notch it, aim it, and fire. That just ain't balanced. Now, such balance isn't always a concern for TTRPGs, and I get that. Most of them, though, are built with this in mind because of both verisimilitude and game balance.
6.5.2023, 11:33 AM
Ian the Great
I think the level of grit desired by a table is best matched through what system the table chooses to use. For instance lots of games are more freeflowing, like Apocalypse World and its ilk, which doesn't even HAVE an initiative system, or Fate which just throws index cards all over the place and lets players be pretty loosey goosey with what is allowed at a given time.

Meanwhile other crunchier games, like Shadowrun or GURPS, have specific rules for every scenario you could get into, and if you get into a situation those rules don't cover, you're wrong, because there is SOME splatbook somewhere that DOES have those rules, you just didn't read them. Those are great for players who want a more simulationist game, because they'll have detailed rules for things like how weather affects accuracy, or how encumbrance works in a comparison of weight to volume, or rules for modifying magic armor to transition from one character to another.

I, personally, don't really like a lot of focus on "realism" in my games, because I feel that RPGs are more about story telling, and so most games I run I like to compare to various movies and TV shows I like. So if a character gets shot in the heart, I like to give them 30 to 60 seconds to monologue to their friends about how they'll treasure them, like Boromir did in Lord of the Rings, rather than the much more realistic approach of that guy falling over dead. Now rules as written, if you were playing D&D that 60 second monologue would happen over 10 rounds, and wouldn't make any sense in game, but narratively it's more fun, so you just say "yeah, Boromir, as a free action, says 'I would have followed you, my brother, my captain, my king,' and falls dead, next up is Gorgax the Berserker."

So even though Boromir's turn took 60 seconds, and should've taken 6, it's more fun that way, and it's not like it's game breaking for him to do so. The important thing is everybody gets the same amount of proper actions. You wouldn't let somebody take 5 actions in a row before another person got to go, that would wreck the game, but if somethings more interesting, narratively speaking, usually you'll suspend the rules to let that happen.

I've actually got a ton of house rules to encourage my games to be more in line with a TV show than a real-life combat scenario, but I don't want to burden you with making this post even longer.
6.5.2023, 1:15 PM
All good points, Ian. Especially making it clear that one needs to find the best RPG system for the players(GM included) and the setting of the game, not just one or the other. Also the comment about how "...there is SOME splatbook somewhere that DOES have those rules, you just didn't read them."

I'm going to risk looking like an argumentative jerk by presenting just a few more things for your consideration... or if someone else is reading this. Especially as it matters should I have not minded my verbiage, GURPS separates fantastic elements (magic, aliens, ultra-tech, etc.) from how the "reality" of the setting functions. You'll see terms like "harsh realism" or "gritty realism" (they're the same thing), but also "realistic", "cinematic", "four color", "silly", and probably more I don't recall.

It may seem paradoxical, but there are official rules for unofficial rules. Some super-simple guidelines for when the GM and/or player have to or even just prefer to wing it. GURPS lets you tweak the system's complexity. GURPS Ultra Lite was designed with conventions in mind. Its rules fit onto the front and back a single, standard-sized sheet of paper... which includes instructions for folding, as it is meant to then be folded into a pamphlet. ;) You can skip all the "Character Point" stuff and just work with the GM to build the character you both agree to for the game. GURPS is a toolkit to build-your-own-system, but unfortunately, not everyone (myself included) always remembers that, so we get hung up on looking up every official rule/ruling. >.>

So, what you're talking about with Boromir having time for his speech? GURPS does that too. Just not in every possible configuration of the system.I still wish to be clear, though: this wasn't about getting you to switch to GURPS. What you said reminds me of how a lot of folks incorrectly see GURPS working. Or maybe I've massively misunderstood you, but at least now you'll know that I did. XP I thank you for the polite, informative discussion. I try hard not to get into old bad habits, but it still happens, so I wanna make sure I'm coming across how I intended, and again, thanking you for your patience!
6.6.2023, 10:55 AM
Ian the Great
I appreciate your response, and trust me, you don't come off as an argumentative jerk. All of us RPG nerds have tons of stuff we could say about the subject if anybody just nudges us slightly. It's like a geeky version of Pandora's Box.

I've actually played a good amount of GURPS. I played in a fantasy game briefly, a space themed game based on the video game FTL, and of course, have played Ninja Burger, all good times. I think GURPS is a serviceable RPG, and I have no umbrage with it. It's not my favorite, not my least. That said, I know there are quite a few hardcore GURPS fans, including my GM for those games I played in. I appreciate that the game is as simple or complex as the GM wants it to be, and damn can it get granular if you want it.

But my initial point wasn't really about GURPS, just that focusing on realism can often detract from a story. In Pokemon, it takes a character the same amount of time to dig a hole underground as it does to bite somebody. That isn't realistic, but that's part of the conceit of the game. In The Dark Knight Rises, Batman drives through a tunnel for about 20 seconds and in that time we go from midday (when Bane attacks the stock exchange) to well into the night, because Batman looks cooler at night. In Star Wars, Luke Skywalker trains with Yoda and greatly improves his abilities with the force for what seems like at least a couple weeks, but at the same time Leia and the rest are ambushed in Cloud City for what seems like maybe a couple hours? I could go on with tons of narrative examples, but the key point here is that in all of these games and movies and whatnot story trumps realism. If you have your big bad evil guy starting a monologue you don't want the whole thing to be "I" *full round of combat "Will" *full round of combat* "Destroy" *full round of combat culminating with the death of the big bad evil guy "Blaaaaargh..."

Now again, that's just how I run my games. Lots of people like to play RPGs as simulationist experiences where the focus is on tactics and strategy over storytelling and conversation. D&D started off as a hack of a tabletop strategy game, afterall, and in that context granularity and realism are praised. There are as many ways to play RPGs as there are RPG groups, if not more, so I'm not really trying to argue that my method is right or yours is wrong. I think both are right. I'm just explaining why I feel how I do, more than anything.
6.1.2023, 12:34 AM
Blue_Elite (Guest)
I'm guessing the trowel is Exodragon's held item.
6.1.2023, 7:53 AM
Fun fact! That's a spade. How do I know? I asked for a trowel for Christmas one time and got a midsized shovel. There was much laughing and confusion, then we googled it. A trowel is indeed a small shovel and a spade is this little handheld one.
6.3.2023, 4:30 PM
Blue_Elite (Guest)
The more you know!
6.1.2023, 4:36 AM
Bin (Guest)
"Like kick him or something" is a lame move. But it can pierce an Invul so what do I know.
6.1.2023, 7:51 AM
Low damage cheese
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